As an irregular user of spice (via Proxmox PVE), I wish the stars would align for QEMU to gain support for sunlight/moonlight streaming directly in the hypervisor. That'd be a killer app for VDI-style infrastructure, now that accelerated guest graphics via Venus, VirtIO GPU, and Intel's support for SR-IOV is finally coming together.
> I wish the stars would align for QEMU to gain support for sunlight/moonlight streaming directly in the hypervisor.
I didn't know I wanted it until you said it.
I have a few QEMU VMs where I use PCI-passthrough of a whole GPU and a USB controller, and wire the display and USB outputs physically into a KVM switch - works great, but not having to fiddle with the KVM (and run out of physical ports) would be - indeed, killer app.
It's possible and I have a very early E2E test. A modification of the sunshine backend itself to be able to connect to qemu. In the future it's definitely possible to have this directly in qemu but it would require reimplementing the whole sunshine protocol
You need a HW encoder per VM, which means vGPU/SR-IOV for anything multi-tenant. But it would work similar to qemu-rdp (which is a better codebase and really, the successor to SPICE): -display dbus can get the framebuffer to any external process, so a Moonlight-protocol server could attach there. Nobody's done it that I can find.
This would be ideal. I've been reading about Moonlight a lot lately, and it's many children. I'm building a new home theater set up and will be trying it soon.
I remember it well, back in the very early 2000s, when my own Athlon XP 1800+ (an AGOIA stepping, I do know that for sure :D) met its untimely end at the hands of a device that was designed to prevent the exact misfortune that killed its sister CPU as seen in this submission!
The fragile silicon was a problem the enthusiast/PC-builder community was very aware of, and the market responded with "spacer" kits you could buy for a few $$$ that were cut from solid sheets of thin copper. These spacers would carefully wrap around all the little bumps on the CPU's upper side, and provide a level plane for the heatsink to rest upon, while still establishing direct contact with the die that it was supposed to cool down. So there was, in theory, decidedly less of a chance of killing your CPU by having the heatsink meet it in an unfortunate angle, or something to that effect.
Unfortunately, the spacer that I had bought turned out to be just a wee little bit too thick, and, despite thermal paste (Arctic Silver!), the CPU did not in fact make contact with the heatsink (something shiny from Thermalright or Zalman, I think?) at all, which killed it instantly as soon as I powered up the rig for the first time. That's what it was like back in the days, when we got to school walking ten miles uphill (both ways) barefoot in deep snow.
I had to put in some overtime at the small PC shop I worked after school back then, to afford a measly Duron 800 as its replacement. And still they keep claiming that time heals all wounds... ;)
I accidentally bent some of the pins on mine but I was able to carefully bend them back and luckily it booted. Computer building on those days was much more unfriendly. I remember hearing tons of horror stories of water cooling including leaks and the cpu overheating and dying that kept me far away from it until more recently.
>Computer building on those days was much more unfriendly
Anyone who heard “black-to-black, back-to-back” just a little too late would agree with you (and probably has mild PTSD)
PC building has become MUCH safer over the decades
> Computer building on those days was much more unfriendly.
Has it? CPUs ran much cooler back then. And gpus didn’t need brackets and special power cables and all that. Water cooling was harder. But also way less common or necessary.
CPUs now throttle to keep their temp in check. Back then, if the temp got too high they’d be permanently damaged like in the example above.
> Water cooling was harder. But also way less common or necessary.
Water cooling isn’t necessary today, either. The heat pipe heatsinks we have available are so good that you can cool every consumer CPU with a good air cooler. The automatic throttling means it won’t be a disaster if the temp gets high. Water cooling might get a few 100 more MHz during sustained all core workloads but it’s not necessary.
That's just it. My 12700k has maximum turbo of 190 watts. But it has giant air HSF that was trivial to install and I don't even HEAR the thing. No problems! Same with the 300watt gpu.
My Athlon 1100 was barely a third tdp at 60watts, yet was perilous to install, broke one (almost $1k, in 2001 money!), and then on the replacement had a 6500rpm screamer jet engine under my desk sitting on mobo that barely supported it and which could fail and kill my 1core cpu at any point :0
That Athlon die did stick out in terms of assembly "danger level". But for me the rest of the assembly was so much easier back then.
25 years ago I never had to wonder if my GPU or CPU cooler will fit the case, clear the RAM, or the HDD cage, if I have something to prop the GPU against so it doesn't sag, if the PSU power cables are fine or I need some adapter and if the adapter can cause a fire if not installed perfectly, if I can access the SSD slot after installing the GPU. That's before having the components in hand.
Installation brings new challenges, LGA sockets are fragile and generally unrepairable, the need for massive coolers leaves little room for maneuver in there, I need to replace the backplate and the general installation procedure is a lot more involved, many of the good thermal pastes are a pain to apply, and so on. The BIOS/UEFI is a jungle now but one you have to navigate to avoid issues introduced by manufacturers pushing setting to the limit in the default profile.
Nvme drives just plug in on mobo and take zero space. I don't have to navigate and bend and fit massive ribbon AND power cables from one end of case to another. 3-4 Nvme fit onto mobo basically invisibly. Want more - cheap easy riser card.
3-4 3.5" PATA drives with ribbon AND power were just fun times / exercises in masochism! And of course different types of ribbon cables, and pins on hard drive begging to be bent, and master / slave hardware settings, and some cables could burn things if plugged in the wrong way around and you had to pay attention that red line on cable aligned with tiny pin 1 on drive. And after a while or if you bend it too much that ribbon cable will give you fun intermittent errors.
Power supplies came with random assortment of built in cables you had to tuck whether you used them or nit. Now you pick and plug in cables you need.
Separate audio card and modem and network card, so definitely had to worry if I had enough Isa slots etc. Now mobo does it all. Maybe even a worthwhile integrated gpu - my 8845hs with 780m does ridiculous amount of gaming. Compared to a 2d card PLUS a 3d card and pass through cables between them - did we forget about those?? :-)
Absolutely did have to worry if my after market cpu cooler will fit back then. Perhaps with stock coolers ones we didn't but I think same is case today.
And I'm just not ready to accept the argument that thermal paste or BIOS were somehow better in 2001 without some solid evidence :-).
Modern technology is great, don't get me wrong. But it does increase complexity and fragility, and pushes things closer to the limits. I didn't say the technology was better but that it was simpler. Simpler components, simpler assembly, fewer assembly concerns for equivalent builds, fewer places to get it wrong, especially fatally wrong.
You don't have jumpers, you have confusing connectors (mPCIe/M.2/miniSATA differentiated by keying), you don't have a thick ribbon, you have a 3 slot graphics card blocking the SDD. Reaching the GPU PCIe retainer clip on most MoBos is a terrible experience with modern (massive) GPUs. Reconnecting the GPU power cable comes with renewed risk of meltdown. These aren't just esthetic issues (cables look bad, inflexible, hang around, etc.).
Yes, pins bent if you were really careless, pulled cables sideways, etc. And you'd straighten them and keep going, even with CPUs. They were more resilient. A bent LGA socket pin today probably kills your motherboard, and might take the CPU with it. Signal integrity and high currents don't leave room to (literally) wiggle.
> Absolutely did have to worry if my after market cpu cooler will fit back then
Weird, here [0] is a review of coolers of the time, I cannot remember a single time this was a concern, maybe short of a few fancier coolers in very special tiny cases. Today many cases put this on the label, gives away that it's a challenge for many.
> And I'm just not ready to accept the argument that thermal paste or BIOS were somehow better in 2001 without some solid evidence
I didn't say better, they were simpler/easier. The BIOS of 25 years ago had a handful of settings. A modern UEFI config and the amount of settings exposed to the users is crazy. Worse yet, today the defaults are no longer guaranteed aimed at safe long term operation, they're pushing for good bench results. They come set with high power limits, boost levels, voltages, etc. and this will bite the user later in longevity and stability.
As for the paste, reviews added a score for "ease of application", this sends a message. Liquid metals, many modern versions of classic pastes, PTM sheets, there are way more options that are a pain to apply or clean, and in exchange you get top performance. Because there are way more CPUs/GPUs that benefit or demand this.
> CPUs now throttle to keep their temp in check. Back then, if the temp got too high they’d be permanently damaged like in the example above.
Well, it kinda depended on the CPU. And then sometimes the motherboard.
On the Intel side, P3s had a pin on Socket 370 to signal an immediate halt/shutdown. You could probably still damage the CPU, and I'm willing to bet a lot of the cheaper motherboards wouldn't respect it. But plenty did, since S370 needed other changes to support Coppermine anyway.
On the AMD Side, Athlon XPs and Morgan Durons did add a safety mechanism similar to the Pentium 3, but since the Thunderbird and Spitfire Durons did not, it was far far less supported.
Intel had THERMTRIP since the Pentium II (slot 1). This is an output signal, and didn't need any mobo involvement; the CPU automatically shuts down and stays stopped until reset with the temperature below the limit.
And this wasnt the only mechanism. Before THERMTRIP# triggers there is also diode based temp sensor embedded in later CPUs (THERMDP, THERMDN) Mobo designer can use to trigger either STPCLK# directly
or southbridge THRM# pin which in turn actuates build-in ACPI interface with programmable Thermal Duty Cycle CPU throttling (THRM_DTY using STPCLK#) in 12.5% steps (6% steps in later revisions of ACPI interface).
AMD didnt have thermal sensor on CPU Die in early CPUs, they had an app note requiring Mobo makers integrate external sensor under socket. No one bothered, not even good brands like Siemens, and we got famous Toms Hardware article with video of AMD CPU burning into a crisp after taking off radiator on Siemens mobo.
I think yes - everything was just more breakable. It feels today's heatsink, CPUs, motherboards, can handle the load and installation they're designed for (rtx 5xxx power connectors notwithstanding). I started building PCs in early 1990s and it was also just easy fun. Early 2000s were this weird time where even doing mainstream things you were absolutely supposed to, such as installing HSF on a CPU, was ridiculously perilous.
Mobos and cases also seem better designed these days. Yes some components need more stuff than before but it all seems to plug in and slot and wrap and screw in nicely if you're patient and methodical. Heck even the cases themselves are somewhat less likely to slot your wrists :).
I feel ~2003 or so was the cusp when I started seeing less builds that were just maddeningly messy and sharp and hyper loud and crazy, and started getting more predictable and sane and workable.
All anecdotal and based on personal perception of course :)
I vaguely remember some builds where setting the DIP switches wrong came with large all-caps text about how it would kill the CPU. Also some Pentium 2 CPUs with cooling shrouds that required duct work the rivaled my house's central HVAC. And yes I remember memory slots on the motherboard that needed to be feathering in or something would snap, and anti-static gloves being critical.
These days I slap the CPU to the motherboard and a giant heatsink with two huge fans and call it a day.
> even the cases themselves are somewhat less likely to slot your wrists
Fair. I have a scar on the knuckle of my index finger from breaking off the cover on a 5 1/4” drive bay. I was trying to push it out and it suddenly gave. My finger slammed into sharp tin and cut deep.
CPUs may run hotter but they have so much more protection. You can even power on and boot a modern Ryzen without even having a heatsink attached and it will not only survive, it will actually go in the BIOS and work for a while! One of these Socket A Athlons would be dead in a microsecond of having pushed the power button if you forgot to put on a heatsink. The Intel PIIIs of the time I believe were one of the first to implement thermal throttling and would crash but probably survive.
and it will not only survive, it will actually go in the BIOS and work for a while!
That's because modern CPUs are thermally limited, so they are essentially designed to stay at their maximum temperature and regulate speed and voltage very quickly in order to achieve that.
I've not had as much experience with AMD CPUs, but have seen several times where the stock Intel cooler's mounting mechanism either wasn't fully latched from the beginning or worked itself loose over time, such that the heatsink was never in contact with the CPU, and the computer continued to operate normally, albeit much slower than it should --- sometimes for years --- with the CPU sitting at its maximum temperature and throttling all the time.
I'd say that CPUs run ~about as hot today as they did back then; power efficiency wasn't a primary concern. Regular computer users didn't care much about the thermals (it either worked or it didn't), and CPUs didn't do the thermally-limited clock boosts that are common today.
GPUs could be spooky hot. While the cards themselves didn't seem to care at all, the heat emanating from a 3dfx Voodoo3 card (I've had a 2000 and a 3500TV) could be enough to make other nearby cards stinky. Fan brackets and other hacks, from now long-defunct small companies like 3dfxcool, were pretty common.
We had PCI, then AGP, then PCI Express -- with overlaps. Woe be to those who errantly picked the older standard for their shiny new build; they would forever be stuck with their new hardware on the older bus, or with an even-deeper hole in their wallet.
There were other unfriendly things. RAM compatibility was weird; I remember a time around the turn of the century when double-sided RAM became inexpensive enough that was cheaper to buy 256MB of double-sided RAM that the PC may only use half of, than to buy 128MB of single-sided RAM.
Cables weren't always keyed, and when they were keyed it wasn't always in useful ways. Plugging a floppy drive in backwards was a common experience. A 40-pin IDE cable might have a key pin blocked off, while the hard drive had all 40 pins populated, and the two wouldn't fit together without modification.
Burning CDs was often a slow-moving disaster, involving feeding expensive blanks into an expensive drive installed in the machine every half-hour just to hope that things would work this time so you could finally listen to some of those MP3s in your Ford after you spent hours downloading them.
Unless you were foolish enough to buy an external drive, instead: As USB was attrociously-slow, those burners usually plugged into the printer port in what could be most-charitably described as an awful fucking mess.
And even if we weren't burning CDs, we had that pesky analog cable to deal with -- neither end of which was necessarily standardized -- so we could play Total Annihilation and listen to its (rather excellent) soundtrack at the same time.
We still had things like sound cards and modems and IRQs to deal with. NICs were often separate from motherboards. BIOS flashing felt like a dark and dangerous art. The fan headers often had different shapes, and usually only some of them were capable of ramping fan speeds.
At one point around that time, we rather quietly shifted the main power draw for new motherboards from the 5v rail to the 12v rail. Existing power supplies weren't always ready for this and it led some down expensive and unexpected paths.
I enjoyed working with PC hardware back then. But it was all pretty unfriendly, and I haven't even mentioned yet how much fun SCSI was to deal with.
Nowadays: We buy a fish tank and install a motherboard and power supply into it. The smart builder has already got the NVMe drive, CPU, and cooler fastened down into place in their purposeful mounts before this point. The fan headers all work. If we saved enough pennies, we add a GPU -- and it slots into the same x16 PCI Express socket that we've been using for over 20 years now. The NICs (often a plurality of them!) are built-in. There are no dip switches or configuration jumpers.
All that's left is to plug it in and install an OS. Easy.
Yup, I killed an Athlon XP in a ridiculously (over-)expensive Voodoo Gaming computer in a similar fashion while updating the HSF, as careful as I was. I've been nervous and anxious every time I update a chip or hear sink ever since even though it's a MUCH quieter affair nowadays...
Speaking of uphill every way, I also remember upgrading to a Alpha PAL screaming 6500rpm++ CPU fan+heatsink that sounded like a mix of jet engine or broken vacuum cleaner. Ridiculously loud - this was a few months before we as a society figured out that larger fans spinning more slowly were all around better for everyone :). I think it was something tiny like 60mm diameter industrial fan.
Heh, one of my most prized posessions in my teens was a GlobalWin FOP38 with that PAL6035 you mentioned mounted. An absolutely CRAZY fan that had no objective right to exist, much less in a teenager's Socket A Celeron rig.
I remember the day it arrived in the mail and I installed it - my family had just recently moved into a new house where my own room was located directly above the living room. When I started my PC with the new cooler and fan for the first time, the noise (esp. the obscene vibrations through the floor/ceiling!) actually prompted my mother to visit and check what's up/wrong :D
I ended up rigging together two chopping boards and a few pristine cleaning sponges as a kind of pedestal for my big tower case to rest upon, and was allowed to operate that way for the months to come. If it weren't for the over-ear headphones I wore all day back then, I guess I would have had suffered hearing loss from the noise exposure rather sooner than later...
I had a "small" Mini Super Orb on my thunderbird, more reasonable then the original Super Orb, and yet my neighbors of the floor above came to complain about my computer's noise
Somehow I managed to sleep with it on though xd
Mounting and dismounting it was very scary, and seeing it hang vertically with the cpu attached made me have cold sweats every time O _ o
Reminds me of a friend's Geforce FX GPU with some jank 40mm fan that decided it wanted to become a projectile in the middle of the night during a lan party we were having and shoot through the small plexiglass window on his case across my room.
Otherwise the only fan insanity I had was much later with a T610 having its idrac corrupt flash and try to do liftoff similar to the precision 7500 towers when the 2nd CPU riser got a little unseated or went bad.
I had a friend whose Athlon Thunderbird was crushed under the heatsink, but everything seemed worked apart from playing MPEG clips under Windows. I guess that some part of the acceleration for full monitor video or MPEG decoding used a component in that portion of the chip (3D Now! ?).
During pgConf.eu in 2016(-ish, could have been one or two years later; I don't remember too well), a representative of payment processor Adyen told the audience that they were, essentially, one big postgres cluster in their backend, too ("cluster" used as per the postgres-native meaning of the term, as in, an installation on a single host with a data directory containing any number of databases).
Long-term, that's the smart and also necessary move. But it can't be done overnight, and the transition has its significant challenges. I hope they don't mess it up it and will address these problems rationally - but given how most EU leaders have acted over these past few years, I remain painfully unconvinced that they will.
I guess it is, but solar can only be part of the answer: You need a solid plan (and all the infrastructure that implementing this plan involves) for when the sun does not shine, because in the more northern parts of Europe especially, energy consumption is highest during seasons in which sunlight is (relatively) scarce.
Also, "the grid" cannot absorb any amount of solar energy - so if you choose to address (at least parts) of the above challenge with a photovoltaic build-out that results in massive excess capacity during summer, there needs to be a plan (and again, its implementation) to handle that.
Excess capacity (literally free power) is only a problem because we mandate that electricity generation can only be done as a business that has to earn profit margins.
Because of economics, this means it makes sense as a business to sell power that requires a purchased input commodity, and doesn't make as much sense as a business to build enough solar to sell power during darker months. This is absurd, backwards, and is hampering our ability to deploy clean and affordable power.
National Governments should be massively overbuilding solar and just handing out the resulting power. It's really difficult to mismanage a solar farm.
Maybe instead of a deregulated generation market, we should focus on a barely regulated power storage market.
Not to sound like an ass but that's your typical HNer hot take on a topic they don't know anything about (which is 99% of topics outside of tech).
I know that I don't know jack shit about the topic, but I can already tell you that if you do what you describe you'll quickly learn about why grids have frequencies, what generate these frequencies, and what happens when they drift.
No, that's not what an "inverter" does, not most inverters at least, you need grid forming inverters and batteries for that... which is my whole point, you don't just take them out of the crate and plug them in the grid, that only works if most of the grid is powered by legacy plants stabilising it.
Do you describe nuclear power plants as "just putting two rocks next to each other and plugging them in the grid"
You don't need a grid forming inverter to re-synchronize with the grid, you only need a grid forming inverter if you need a complete cold start or to support a grid island.
In the context of our discussion, adding more capacity, that's exactly what's needed here. We're not replacing 100% of energy sources with solar, we are replacing energy sources with _renewables_ which is hydro, solar, wind, arguably nuclear as well.
Even extending your argument to "well we need to only have solar" then you need a grid forming inverter with batteries. That's not a massive increase in complexity or time and supports the "just tie them to the grid" statement.
Trying to use the analogy of a nuclear power plant, which requires 10-15 years (including permitting), is ridiculous. A solar plant is 2-5 (including permitting) - by comparison.
With the 25.12 release, the luci app to use ASU for upgrades became installed by default in OpenWrt's "vanilla" images the project builds and provides for supported hardware and devices.
Previous OpenWrt releases at least as far back as 21.02 could be equipped with the same degree of ASU support by installing a single package (luci-app-attendedsysupgrade) and its dependencies.
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