> i'm not sure how much people realize that the modern "graphics driver" is actually just "the kernel multiplexes userspace messages to/from the GPU and we've taught mesa to understand each family of GPU you'd ever care to support."
In the case of OpenGL, it has a fairly sophisticated state tracker, which you can carry around with you. For example, I can statically compile ANGLE this way.
But even OpenGL/Vulkan have a shader compiler that's unique to the hardware (it's expensive to carry it around with every piece of hardware in the universe).
And I'm not even talking about libdrm, which is quite tightly tied to the kernel version.
I know exactly what I'm talking about, because I can also statically compile Mesa into my application.
These decisions, and these studies, were made a VERY long time ago. It's completely unclear why the decisions made then are relevant now, and why they can't be challenged.
It is like advocating that we should drop cars and go back to chariots, because wooden wheels don't get flat, while forgetting why they are mostly used for tourists nowadays.
Yes, on the one hand, each specific distribution doesn't have this problem because it can pick up everything it needs.
But for us, independent developers of small programs, the problem is truly stark: we can't afford to build our programs for every distribution. And we can't afford to waste time navigating all the idiosyncrasies of various package repositories, both technical and political (not all repositories allow easy access).
And we can't count on someone else packaging our work until we become incredibly popular.
> But for us, independent developers of small programs, the problem is truly stark: we can't afford to build our programs for every distribution.
Most people use the major distributions like Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Arch, alpine linux, void linux,… A build machine with VMs can easily take care of those.
> And we can't afford to waste time navigating all the idiosyncrasies of various package repositories, both technical and political (not all repositories allow easy access).
Most (if not all) package managers allow for custom repositories. No need to get access to the official ones.
> A change in paradigm is necessary. Freestanding C, not hosted C. This completely gets rid of the libc and is a surprisingly clean language. Linux only, because it's the only kernel with a stable binary interface. Every other OS forces a C runtime.
Great choice for small programs, but what if I want hardware accelerated 3d?
Yeah, that's the annoying part. Been wondering about this for years, and graphics support was among the first issues raised on the lone lisp GitHub repository. At this point I've even started exploring the mesa codebase, made some patches but didn't submit them yet due to the AI stigma.
With Linux system calls alone it should be possible to set up kernel mode setting without depending on any toolkit at all. This should be enough to get a framebuffer for software rendering.
For hardware acceleration though, one must give this graphics context to an OpenGL ES implementation. That's where it gets ugly. There is no way to divorce that from the libc short of literally rewriting it.
Maybe Vulkan will enable it? I can't say for sure at my current knowledge level.
And I also remember very well that dynamic linking appeared ONLY because we were catastrophically short on memory; everything else was added much later.
Now we have plenty of memory, and we can very well return to our blessed roots!
Exactly. I think you're doing fine. It's weird that you're using C++ here, since that brings in a lot of crap, but then your programs are probably C++ anyway, so it's not a problem.
Honestly I'm impressed by this work. It's a thankless thing to have built, it's definitely feasible to build but more work than almost anyone would have been willing to do. What would be even neater is if Musl had this builtin.
> One advice I'd give you is to _really_ take care regarding SysV/ELF ABI conventions, there's tons of undocumented stuff in there and it's really easy to mess something up or cause a security defect (see AT_SECURE)
Yes, it's not trivial, but I hope that over time everything will settle down.
> if I understood your implementation correctly you're hooking this into an already running musl which could cause backwards compatibility issues if musl changes under you
No, I hook this to musl, which is statically linked into my binary, and I have complete control over it.
Windows handles this much better than any other OS. The API passes versions (== structure sizes on the calling side), and WinAPI can handle that.
As for older Windows systems not being able to load new DLLs, they can; the format hasn't changed in a very long time. I've had experience with installing some DLLs on Windows NT 3.51 and running a modern Firefox, which is about 20 years behind the times.
