Definitely not. Remote work was the key to letting me not move for a job.

I’ve managed remote teams around the world. I know this violates the popular narrative, but remote hires generally either stayed exactly where they were or moved to bigger, expensive cities. We paid them more than they made locally so they often used the new income to move up.

I’ve only known a few people who used remote work to move to the mountains or countryside, but about half of them have moved back. It’s easy to glorify remote locations from watching movies or scrolling Instagram, but unless you have some specific draw to those locations it’s likely not as idyllic as it may sound. You could be replacing your work commute with an extra long commute to everything else you need to do, like grocery shopping.

That doesn't match my experience in the slightest - I've been on a remote team for almost a decade now. Most of the team moved when they got the chance, as do most new hires. Some move to the mountains, some to the ocean, some to rural homesteads, others to different cities, or simply to the home they want instead of the home dictated by their commute. A few have moved again over the years when they change jobs, but we're talking less than 10%. Even as most of us have all moved on from that original team, we still live where we choose because remote jobs are even easier to find now vs. a decade ago.

You are right about one thing - my grocery shopping is now 15 minutes away instead of 5. As I sit at my desk, looking over the countryside and watching my boys play in the snow while the birds flit about my window... I'm 100% satisfied with that trade off.

> moved to bigger, expensive cities

Why did they do that? Did they share to you a main reason? Is it access to groceries, as you mentioned? or better schools for their kids? medical care?

I find it hard to justify the increased rent and general cost of living.

There are advantages to living in cities! I live in an expensive major city (working remotely) and find it hard to imagine life outside of it (at least in the US). All of my friends/family are here, I have restaurants from practically every cuisine in the world, there are plenty of interesting cultural events, and best of all I don't need a car in order to do things.

Rent sucks, yes, but I live here because I like it here, not because I need to for my job.

I took a great paying remote job pre-pandemic when I was around 26 and initially planned on moving out of the city to lower COL areas (think 30-40 mins outside of a major hub). OP nailed the piece about living in true middle of nowhere adds more hurdles than value it creates, so that was always out of the question for me.

Three things stopping me from moving that haven't been mentioned yet were:

(1) I had to run out my lease (had signed a 1-year a few months before getting the job) (2) Friends and professional network (all in the city) (3) Fear of losing the remote job / not being able to get another one and having to move back into the city for a job

1 & 2 are fixable with time, but 3 always felt like too big of a risk. Granted, this was pre-pandemic so finding remote opportunities that paid well was harder. Not sure if I'd feel the same way if I had a similar choice in front of me today.

Because they wanted to live there, basically.

If you view a city as nothing more than rent and groceries and you get most of your entertainment at home, then big cities probably don’t feel like a good value proposition.

But if you enjoy going to events, eating out, socializing with a wide variety of motivated people, and otherwise experiencing everything a city has to offer, a big city is the place to be.

Neither answer is “right” for everyone. It’s an individual preference.

Better job prospects. I'm not even being facetious. I manage remote teams and see the same, people apply/join whilst residing in rural areas but almost invariably migrate to cities, attracted by the job market (and by nightlife etc but not as much)

There is the occasional outlier, that is someone who prefers to freedom to work from anywhere and keeps on the move, hopping about the globe whilst working remotely, but they are rare.

> There is the occasional outlier, that is someone who prefers to freedom to work from anywhere and keeps on the move, hopping about the globe whilst working remotely, but they are rare.

I have not had good luck with most (though not all!) digital nomad types, either as contractors or remote employees. My sample size is small because they are rare, like you said. However, the few that I’ve worked with felt like they needed extraordinary management attention to extract even moderate amounts of work relative to anyone else on the team.

And of course their peers and teammates hate it the most because they’re forced to collaborate with someone in changing time zones who seems to be working hard at avoiding work.

Ever consider fun, sex, action?

They get to evaluate and inherit the infrastructure density too.

Density of humans means density of networks of humans. This decreases the cost of having many things available. You want to be around other people that have justified those things and didn’t find it hard to, because you inherit their superior networks too.

My rule of thumb is basically: would I have a good time taking an aimless walk here, among the buildings? Are they pleasing to look at? Will I come across friends and neighbors on the sidewalk? Will I discover nice places to eat, get a cup of coffee, browse for books?

Many people simply spend the increases in their pay while fantasizing about what they don’t currently have.

Live in the country … “I need to be in the city where I can access more events and people to fulfill my life. The countryside is boring and making me feel x.” Live in the city … “I need to be in the country where I can have more solitude and enjoy nature to fulfill my life. The city is overstimulating and making me feel y.”

Some of us are nomadic by nature and simply want some place different every few years. Others want stability and remain in places for decades.

I used to fantasize about new places, expecting the change in environment alone to be impactful. Now I realize that changing locations will not by itself impact my life for the better, but the act of searching for a new home, discovering new places and meeting new people is exciting and invigorating.

Moving physical things sucks though, so minimizing physical possessions makes this lifestyle much smoother of course.

Do you have teams that tend towards younger ages? I'd throw out there that what trends you see will be heavily dependent on that.

I didn’t permanently move, but took advantage of WFH to spend 9 month closer to family in Eastern WA/Idaho.

I’m not going to lie, it was a pretty eye opening experience going from the Bay Area to a small town. The pace was more calm and I realized I could still get access to 80% of what I had in the Bay Area. Walking by the lake and having people say “good evening” was a nice change. Being able to drive 10 min and be in the middle of nature was great.

I eventually returned to SF, and I’m not sure right now in my life is a good time for a permanent move, but it certainly had its appeal.

I feel like a mid-sized town - has most amenities, some places to splurge and access to an airport would be ideal - the best trade off between what SF offers and what smaller towns offer.

I think the problem is the travel disruption has reall LT thrown things off. If I were to be stuck for 12 months in one place, I’d take SF (or another big city). If I knew I could easily jump on a cheap flight, the smaller cities start to seem much more appealing.

I've lived in those areas before and have considered going back. Probably my main consideration is lack of cultural diversity. Not just for personal enjoyment but I want to raise my family where they can grow up with people of diverse backgrounds.

Also, might just have been the places I lived but I missed having peer in tech or who were similar. Just not interested in hunting and sports,

I get the diversity thing but depending on the small town you can get more than SF some times. My neighborhood in SF is 90% white.

But the tech things rings true. However, my only counter is that having a strong community that has nothing to do with work is pretty cool too.

> My neighborhood in SF is 90% white

White is not a culture. Skin colour is orthogonal with cultural diversity.

Amsterdam is also 80-90% white but is incredibly diverse with all sorts of people from all sorts of places and backgrounds.

Point taken.

Let me refine by saying my neighborhood in SF is 90% white, Democrat voting, can’t-get-off-the-hedonistic-treadmill culture, love to talk about progressive ideals while voting for restrictive policies that hurt residents.

I lived in a swing state a long time ago and it was actually nice interacting with people from a lot of different backgrounds, none of which dominated the culture. You could go to a rave with some anarchist one weekend and go deer hunting with an evangelical Christian the next.

It's a bit facetious to say that when most white people in America are "American" culturally which is quite clearly what they meant.

That sounds like you're implying that black Americans aren't actually American.

That you read that into it says more about you than it does me given that I’m not American…

> The pace was more calm and I realized I could still get access to 80% of what I had in the Bay Area. Walking by the lake and having people say “good evening” was a nice change. Being able to drive 10 min and be in the middle of nature was great.

This has been closer to my experience in most cities that aren’t SF, NYC, or a few other notable outliers. SF / Bay Area is fun in some ways but it’s very much a weird bubble

I live in a remote area of Pakistan, a very beautiful place 100000% opposite of main Pakistan. I work for a US based company from here. The biggest expense is internet (200 USD per month sett-lite based internet). All others are home grown like fruits, vegetable, flour, egg, meat. I will not move to any other place permanently. However travel Dubai, Turkey and Thailand once in a year to grab beer! I love this rhythm of WFH.

I work with someone in your exact situation on my remote team. The time zone difference is challenging but we’ve made it work and he is a very bright developer who I find invaluable to our team. I asked him one day if he ever wanted to move to America or Canada and his answer was the same as yours. It’s always interesting to get takes from outside of your cultural bubble. I am very happy where I am but I would be lying if I said your situation is not appealing to me (even if only for a little while).

You're basically living my dream. Do you ever travel to US for work?

Never been to USA, however will surely travel there someday.

I moved to the Netherlands from the states recently using DAFT. Sold the car/furniture, shipped the personal items. My wife and I haven't missed our car at all because the city (Amsterdam) has good transit and we live in a very walkable part of town. I work later in the day to overlap a few hours with my team which means I don't have to worry about waking up at 7-8am to make standup. I'm still learning what it's like to live here but so far it's a great improvement in many ways over Scottsdale. We feel like this might be the place we start our family.

The Netherlands is fantastic!

My partner and I are based nominally half in London and half in Amsterdam. He's Dutch so we've had a house right in the centre of Amsterdam for years.

At the start of last year, we rented a wonderful office there. Even though I'm only there half the time, it feels like a wonderful getaway, perfectly set up for tech-oriented careers.

What makes it so special:

* It's on a canal, facing an island with beautiful 17th century warehouses.

* The office is three minutes walk from home, and accessible only by foot.

* It's also huge, 90m2, with a main room (with our two desks, a lunch table, a couch/relaxed sitting area, and a gym/yoga area) a meeting room, a kitchen and a toilet.

* I keep my bikes and kayak there. Most mornings at 6:30am, I do an hour long bike ride, through parks, with just four traffic lights.

* Plus it's only ten minutes' walk from Amsterdam Central Station.

All the advantages of being in the middle of a real city. But it feels like the countryside.

Having been to both places, what didn’t you like about Scottsdale?

1. Too hot for too long (winters are pretty good though), at least in the cold I can get outside with layers on and be comfortable, no escaping the heat 2. I'm legally blind and deaf, Amsterdam is giving me back freedom because a car is not a necessity (it is in Scottsdale/Phoenix, don't let anyone tell you otherwise) 3. I don't necessarily always feel safe there (especially in a car)

Scottsdale does have a lot of things going for it, don't get me wrong: 1. Lots of cool restaurants/activities (I used to go to ifly once a week for training) 2. Airport is very accessible 3. Good nature spots just a short drive out of the city (mini vacations for a weekend are great) 4. Lots of disc golf parks which I've taken up as another sport I can mostly participate in despite my vision loss 5. Rent is affordable compared to the other big cities

Lots of good reasons to move to Scottsdale, don't get me wrong. If it weren't so hot I probably wouldn't have left as readily.

No. I have chosen the big city (Bogotá, Colombia) and neighbourhood I want to live independently from any employer, so there is no reason to change just because of remote work. For the time being I can't imagine myself living on the countryside or even suburbs.

As my live situation changes over time I will continuously revise my/our priorities and thus place to live, but for now I'm happy where I am.

So the permanent home wont change for a while likely, but unlike pre-pandemic I spend days or weeks at the time on the countryside working from there and from some point on next year I want to spent more time, couple months per year, back in Europe to be closer with family/friends and some aspects of European culture I miss. New work policies definitely make this plan easier. But if I'm committed I would find a way to do this pandemic changes or not.

I'm in my late 20s and used to live in London. Moved my things out of my flatshare and into my parents' place last year.

Since then I've been bouncing around different countries but have found I really like Porto, Portugal. My cost of living is roughly 33% of London (for example: rent, housing taxes and utilities costs in London were £1100 - I'm paying £350 total in Porto). At the same time, the quality of life here is superb.

Portugal is great for nomads because wages for locals are super-low like a third world country but its in Europe still.

I did and I regret it deeply. I was working remotely even pre-covid times and I decided to leave London (where housing was becoming a nightmare) to move to Sweden. I have never been this deeply lonely in my entire life. I love the nature, I love the winter, even the darkness, but socially this was a very bad move. Working remotely when you live close to a big city where you are very fluent in the language is not even close to being the same as working remotely when you live in a foreign country alone and far away from everyone.

I'm sorry to hear that. I think Sweden can be a difficult culture to integrate into. If you live near Stockholm and would like to meet up I'd be happy to introduce you to my group of friends. My e-mail is in my profile.

Having friends in Denmark and Norway this might be a Scandinavian thing.

Did you move there on your own without knowing anyone? How did you choose Sweden? Do you feel like hosting some HN nomads?

Out of curiosity, why did you choose Sweden?

Why not move back?

Is there an expat community you could mingle with?

I did a pros/cons analysis and figured out that it would be my best bet since I knew the language at a around a B2/C1 level and there was no other EU country that spoke English (my preferred language). However, I severely underestimated how difficult it would be to establish a social circle without very fluent Swedish and without existing connections. There is certainly an expat community that I've tried to interact with, but sadly covid has made in-person social gatherings almost non-existing (restrictions have not been very severe here but many groups like language cafes have been cancelled or moved online). Hope things get better in the spring!

> there was no other EU country that spoke English (my preferred language)

you've missed a whole country named Ireland which is in EU

And another named Malta. Much smaller, for sure, but with way better weather.

In visiting other countries, I realized how little I interact with the people around me because of the language barrier. I know there are places its worse and some where its better. Still, made me reconsider to another country.

Maybe try somewhere like Scotland, especially the Highlands? You'll get similar-ish weather and nature, but you'll speak the language and it'll be easier to work remote for London companies.

Yeah, that's a thing with us swedes in general, and perhaps also with tech people in general. Combine the two and...

Why not move back?

Not a UK citizen and Brexit has effectively made moving back much much harder than it was before when you had automatic right of residence based on being an EU citizen.

After my company went remote, my life partner and I had the fortune in spring of 2020 to be able to temporarily relocate from our 1BR condo in Washington, DC to her family's "summer" house on Cape Cod in Massachusetts (USA). Typically the house is shared among their extended family and different groups reserve it for a week or two each in the summer, but in '20 it was limited to my partner and her three siblings and their partners.

We stayed there from June to October, and after going home to DC for a spell came back to the Cape for Thanksgiving and then again for some long stretches in '21, including during the winter. It has been a great retreat from the city during these pandemic years.

My partner has an aunt and uncle who have lived year round in the same town on the Cape for something like 30 years. I also have an aunt who has lived there year round with her family for a similar amount of time in the neighboring town. I grew up visiting the Cape most summers and always loved it, but only ever thought of it as a summer place.

I've always thought of myself as a city person, but now we're planning to buy in one of these towns and move there permanently. I couldn't be more excited.

The company I work for has been very progressive in our work model over the past year and a half, and we've now gone fully distributed -- I plan to work remote forever.

The main challenge for us now is that the housing market on the Cape is a mess. In '20 prices skyrocketed. By '21 demand had cooled somewhat, but there has been no inventory. We'll see what things look like come this spring. Fortunately we can temporarily live in our family's houses while we search and prepare to sell or lease our condo here in DC.

I would not… 10 years ago I left the big city I used to live in (and where I was born: Milan, Italy) to move to the French Riviera! I have nice house less than a 100m from the beach, sea view… and in France we work 35h a week with 35 days of vacation a year! It was great already before telework… now it is simply amazing!

I'm actually surprised that American remote tech folks aren't pouring into Europe where the quality of life is an order of magnitude better (especially on a US salary). And it's especially more viable now with all the digital nomad visas.

https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-digital-nomad-visas/

If you can avoid the tax exposure and live there on US salary, it can be great. Realistically, as a US Citizen you're only allowed to stay in EU (Schengen) countries for 90 days for every 180 day period, unless you get one of these digital nomad visas and have a self-sustaining business to make the move.

I think that the average american (USA) has no idea how good is the life in Europe.. They think we are all communists or they are very affectionated to the USA life style

They truly have no clue! Money ain’t everything… and with all the benefits we get from the government you can live with pretty high standards with half the salary of US worker!

Enabled directly by circumstances created by the pandemic, one year ago I (a heretofore lifelong Californian) moved my household from VHCOL San Jose CA to an M/LCOL semi-rural area in AZ. Had my move not crossed a state line (impacting payroll processes which my direct management was required to sign off on), my management chain would not have noticed at all.

The pandemic's normalization of remote work enabled this move (which otherwise would have been deferred until retirement) to occur with minimal risk to my existing W2 income stream, which made what would otherwise have been a somewhat fraught transition largely worry free. I am also grateful that the pandemic in its first 9 months also removed one of my primary pre-move daily-life stressors: a heinous twice-daily commute on massively oversubscribed south bay roads and highways (which was far from being the worst possible).

I moved from DC to Vermont about 15 years ago. I lost the job I had when I first moved when they eliminated remote work and I refused to move back, and for a while I struggled a bit to find remote work. Ultimately I found a local job which I love and I loved walking in to work every day in all weather, about 2.5 miles. Then COVID struck and the company went remote and has decided to stay remote. As it grows its workforce is ever more dispersed (we intend to stop growing in the near future to preserve the character of the company). I have never regretted my decision. I make much more use of the opportunities the country provides than I did of the opportunities in the city. Also, the rest of the members of my immediate family, and much of my extended family, have made the same decision, so I now live closer to them.

I have been fully remote since 2007. I already live in a rural area so for me I was just grateful of the better work opportunities that remote has offered. The rest of this story will be about a friend and co-worker that I have managed.

We had worked together for years at this small company. He moved to northern CA and still worked for us but was the only remote employee. He was a founder though so no one was going to question it. Anyway, after the company sold, I got a remote manager job at a SV company (not FAANG) and lured him to join me. Once his daughter graduated college, he moved to a house he had bought in Spain and worked from there for most of the year. Our team was mainly East Coast and Europe so it worked better having him in Spain anyway.

He spends roughly half the year in Spain. He owns a small cottage on a lake in NH and will spend a couple months of the summer there. His daughter lives in DC so he will spend a month or so with her. His wife's family lives in Atlanta area so he will spend a month or so with them. Before Covid, he also listed his Spain house on a house sharing site and used that to spend a month here and there in lots of cool places like Paris, Nice, Croatia and the Canary Islands among others.

It obviously helped that I was his manager and knew that this nomadic life would not impact his work but other than that I think it is a model for what a lot of people would like to do, especially in the back part of their careers.

Yes, I lived in Lisbon, Portugal and after starting a remote job I decided to move back to my hometown. All my family lives here, the kids have a quieter environment to grow up, housing is much cheaper. Some downsides, but very happy with the change.

Home town in Portugal?

Yes. Aveiro/Portugal.

Sorry, should have made that clearer.

Hey there, Portuguese fellow here. I'm currently living abroad, but I actually would like to move back to Portugal but still be working as remote. Would you mind telling me which company do you work for (or if you know, other companies that offer remote working)? I'm asking because I think Portuguese companies will be a bit conservative and probably not offer remote working in general. You can contact me directly if you like, just see the e-mail on my profile.

I'm currently single, live in the SF Bay Area, and my only roommate is my dog. Given that, I'd be a fool to not at least consider moving somewhere else. So, yes, I did consider it.

But, my dog loves that I live within 5 miles of at least 5 different dog parks, and that's a real factor. I also have an extra bedroom I use as an office, so, I'm all set up to WFH here in my rent controlled apartment, even if I don't move anywhere. In another 3 years, I expect my rent will be significantly below market. For now, I've decided that my life is here, and I like it that way.

That might change when my lease is up in February. However, I'm also currently on the job market, so, there will be the additional factor of "is my employer going to pay me less if I move, and, if so, how much?" I also have a hobby that's somewhat difficult to practice in a less populated locale, so, it's not going to be strictly a case of "run the numbers, look at the bottom line, and pick the place with the bigger number." I'm going to have to do a serious quality of life analysis in a couple of months.

I left SF for Utah right before the pandemic once I got permission from my previous employer. Once I left that position, I stayed and got a new job fairly easily with a few different offers since COVID has transformed the remote-work situation. While I'm not exactly in the "countryside" I can be in the mountains in 20-30 minutes. My quality of life went from 2/10 to 10/10, some examples:

- I save the equivalent of a Tesla payment in income taxes each year, and thus save more money

- I bought a new construction, 5 bedroom house for the price of a condo in my old city

- My new location has fast, inexpensive fiber-optic internet with lots of ISP choices, which ironically I didn't have in the big city

- World-class skiing and hiking, off-roading, camping, deserts, etc. Obviously California has some of those things but they always seem like a 4-5 hour drive away

- I'm a 20 minutes away from a great International airport with direct flights to most of Europe, 1-2hr flights to anywhere on the West Coast (LAS, SF, SEA, LAX)

Was remote before COVID, but pandemic madness and home prices in Toronto had me itching to get out. After 25 years in Toronto I moved 3.5hr drive North to a beautiful city with gigabit internet, lakes and wilderness. I got a house more than twice as big for 1/3 the price of what I sold for.

Because of the reduction in personal burn rate, I was able to leave my soul sucking job and join a tiny startup to get back to my roots.

It's hard to make friends as an adult during COVID, so there's times when it's lonely for sure.

> After 25 years in Toronto I moved 3.5hr drive North to a beautiful city with gigabit internet, lakes and wilderness.

It's wild, I had to move 20ish miles outside of Indianapolis to a town of 200~ people where the closest gas station is 8-10 miles away and I don't get residential mail delivery while being surrounded by corn and soy fields to actually have access to gigabit internet for the first time in my life... scratches head

Remote work has basically ensured I don't have to leave the town I'm in. I live in a small city in Iowa, specifically one with fantastic municipal internet service. It's got a Target and a handful of good restaurants and is a few hours from family. I don't plan on leaving now that I can work for a large variety of remote companies. You should try to live somewhere because you like it -- not for money or job reasons. Obviously that's not always possible.

I work somewhere WFH doesn’t make much sense and watching as most of my coworkers fight against management on coming back. It’s more than a little weird to be on the sidelines on this.

OP: you should stay near your parents as they sound important to you. You’re not missing out. I’d say look for ways to benefit.

> I work somewhere WFH doesn’t make much sense and watching as most of my coworkers fight against management on coming back. It’s more than a little weird to be on the sidelines on this.

You've got me a little curious now. Any additional details you'd care to share?

When covid hit I was already working remotely as a freelancer for a while. My SO on the other hand was going to the office in a big city. In June 2020 when it became clear that she was going to work from home for an extended period of time, we bought a house in a remote place and we've been living there since.

The house itself is small but we both have our dedicated 8m2 "office" which is key in my opinion. Internet is 4G only so I built a Linux router with a good modem and high gain antennas, it has worked wonderfully for remote work even if the latency is not amazing.

We both love nature and the ability to just step outside and go for a walk in a nice landscape whenever we feel like it is amazing. Back in the big city we needed to drive one hour to get away from the concrete.

My wife and I moved from California to the mountains of Central Arizona about 23 years ago. Living away from any large cities is definitely a pain sometimes (we can get to Flagstaff or Prescott in an hour). We temporarily moved, renting out our house, for gigs at Google and Capital One, but have otherwise stayed out here because we have so many local friends. Both times we enjoyed culture and other perks of living in real cities.

Living in more remote areas is less expensive and perhaps a healthier life style. When I go to places like NYC for business I probably walk an average of an hour a day, at home I probably average 1 1/2 hours a day.

Anyway, it is a difficult decision for you to make because there are advantages to both options.

Strongly considering Zanzibar (Tanzania) for a few months a year. The internet is not great but enough for pulling git repos and docker images as well as video calls, occasional electricity outages are a bit of an inconvenience, but the place has a lot to offer in terms of quality of life if you're looking for simplicity. Timezone is quite close to Europe (UTC+03:00) which is a plus.

I started working remotely about 7 years ago. After I'd been with the company for about 3 years they trusted me enough to move into an RV and drive around the country. We took 18 months and drove all over the Western us and parts of Canada. You can read about my story on https://therecklesschoice.com

Yes, my partner and I switched to remote work in 2016. Since then we stopped living in cities and started living part of the year at the beach and part of the year next to a lake near a national park. We spend a few months a year in the city to catch up with people and soak in the cultural vibes. Most of the time we are near family.

Yes, just before the pandemic we moved from a major city out to a rural, mountainous area. The area we moved to is much quieter and more full of nature, and yet we can somehow get fiber/gigabit internet while we could only get cable in the city. I hope to never have to go back. I don't miss the traffic or airplanes or crime. I do miss some of the entertainment opportunities, but it's only 2 hours to the city and there are plenty of outdoor activities to do now. My biggest complaint is lack of good restaurants, though this has prompted us to learn to cook better.

Willing to share where there is fast internet in an mountainous area?

I’m in the process of moving (back) to a countryside location.

I lived there a number of years ago and split my time in a tech job 2 to 3 days a week in the office and the remainder back home working remotely. It was a struggle - Slack etc wasn’t a thing at that point and the communication was always strained while I was remote. I realised at some point that being remote was going to be career limiting and relocated close to a city with a large tech scene here in the UK. I didn’t resent the move as such, but I’d always missed being in the countryside and the town I’d adopted as home.

Now with the tech scene (certainly here in the UK) having embraced remote working on what appears to be a permanent basis I’m taking the opportunity to move back there and work mostly remotely. Luckily the company I work for has a great approach to this and there doesn’t seem any shortage of other tech companies offering it too. Of course there is always the risk that this will be limiting in the long run, but it feels like the current outlook is on the side of taking that risk. I realised over COVID lockdowns how much I missed living there, so I’ve decided it’s an important move for me personally.

COVID has been awful in so many ways, but a positive coming out of it is the way it has forced some realisations about how we work. For me the realisation has been that it isn’t about having a certain number of days or fixed times in the office - I think this is pretty old fashioned thinking. But instead committing to getting together in person with colleagues and clients for the right activities, where it really adds value.

Would be interested to hear where you are moving to and where else you maybe considered moving to, I’m in a similar situation in the UK at the moment too.

I am strongly considering Manhattan. The cost of living is similar to SF but the urban amenities and energy are on a whole other level.

However it’s a bit daunting to get an office or an extra bedroom there at my own expense. I’m not sure I’m up for working from my living room or bedroom.

I did this move right when the boosters were rolling out and got a relatively good deal on a two bedroom apartment near midtown. It was the best choice I’ve ever made! I never felt like I belonged in SF, but in New York you can be who you want to be.

live in Williamsburg, not Manhattan. everyone moves to Manhattan for a few years, realizes it's not worth it, and moves to Williamsburg. Skip the first phase.

That advice made sense 10 years ago when Williamsburg was cheaper. Now it's the same price and less convenient. I love Manhattan

Anything in Brooklyn is less convenient.

I tried to break my lower Manhattanite molding and stayed over in that part of Brooklyn for a month. I was even around some of those hardcore Brooklyners who would protest the idea of any event in Manhattan, and then every event they took me too was a lamer version of Manhattan. Or they wanted to go to Brooklyn Mirage every day. I had some other crews but its not for me. The biggest irony to me was that everything people in Brooklyn complained about, regarding Brooklyn, were the same things people in Manhattan complained about regarding Brooklyn. So I’m really turned off by collective delusion places especially when my luxury apartment dwelling friends have a choice in the matter.

The neighborhoods are nice, and the newer rooftops are mind blowing. But the classic circuit in Manhattan is for me. East Village, LES, Soho, Tribeca, Washington Square, West Village, Meatpacking.

Back in the attractive-because-its-gentrified part of Brooklyn:

Greenpoint? I dont get it. Every time you wanna go out its just walking further to Williamsburg or taking a convoluted path to Queens or Manhattan, and some really scary roads for bike/scooter.

Williamsburg? I’ll stick with visiting.

Fort Greene/Prospect Park? Beautiful, neighborly, I wish it was geographically close to other things like surrounded by Manhattan. But apparently I missed some action in downtown Brooklyn that none of my current friends do.

I lived in Manhattan the whole time I lived in New York, despite most of my friends living in Brooklyn.

Brooklyn is lame.

My company went full remote in response to Covid in March of 2020 and things continued to work well for us, so much so, we decided to stay that way.

As a result, my wife and I were able to move, though we did the opposite of what you're considering. Having been in the burbs for the last 28 years of my life, we made the switch to move to the city. Sold our house during the very hot market and bought a condo in the city. We're almost a year in and loving it.

Yes. A few months into the pandemic my landlord wanted to raise the rent, so I took that as my cue to move to the beach and now I surf 4 days a week.

I didn't move, I was already living in a nice house in a remote village (altitude 1000m) in the French Alps. I wouldn't go anywhere else for now, but my wife has plans for us to move somewhere near a beach (think one of the many sunny French islands) in 10 years from now, when the kids have grown.

I love this way of life. I wouldn't apply for a non-remote job nowadays.

I'm in the SFBA, but grew up in central KY and eastern TN. While I'm very interested in moving out, my wife isn't ready yet. Personally I find California to be oppressively over-regulated (zoning and planning are horrible, but the limits on what I can do and buy are also heavy-handed), unreasonably expensive (primarily housing, taxes, fees, and energy), and the people too judgmental of others and their differences (trendy-issue virtue-signaling is a competitive sport). It isn't a healthy or cost-effective place to raise kids.

The only things going for the area used to be nice weather and tech jobs. But now that summer and early fall are filled with smoke and the jobs can be worked from anywhere, why stay? My wife agreed to move out as soon as we had a child, so I'm pretty excited about having the opportunity for an escape.

I left the US ~5 years ago after getting a fully remote position. I'd probably quit if they ever told me I had to come back. I miss family and old friends of course but I can't deny that I live a significantly better life now. It's one of the best decisions I've ever made.

I looked into this at my last job but it’s difficult to get the tax benefits if you can’t establish legal residency elsewhere.

Working on tourist visas isn’t legal in 99% of places and doesn’t satisfy tax authorities in Canada.

Are you bouncing between countries as your tourist visa expires in each place, or are you a citizen of somewhere other than the US?

Pre-covid I bounced but also set myself up to have relatively stable home bases. This includes resident visas in countries that do not require me to spend a lot of time in those specific countries and international real estate.

At the moment I am mostly stationary but I still have projects and/or goals in at least 4 different countries.

Where is your base? Any recommendations for setting up this arrangement?

It's been a few years since I've seriously looked into some of these places so things may have changed or I am not remembering 100% correctly. Also, some countries listed below require a certain level of passive income as well but I'm not 100% sure which ones.

You can apply for residency in places like Mexico which require very little physical presence to maintain/renew a visa for the first few years. After 3 years (I think) you have to live there for the last 18 months before applying for citizenship.

Chile is the opposite in where you must spend the first 18 months in the country but after that you only really need to be there once a year.

Other countries have generous tourist visas like Turkey. If you rent an apartment for one year in Turkey (anywhere, for any price) you can get a 1 year tourist visa.

Wikipedia has a list of all countries visa policies as well. You could find out about where you are allowed to stay for longer than 90 days somewhere by searching for "visa policy of $COUNTRY".

Then there are places offering visas for remote workers but requires you to live there for at least 6 months of the year (making you a tax resident of that country). This includes places like Portugal, Estonia, Georgia, and the UAE.

I believe in Georgia and the UAE they will not charge income tax for the first year as well but I may be wrong.

If you have deeper pockets there are Golden Visa programs for places like Portugal, Greece, Malta, Cyprus (might be wrong on this one), New Zealand, Georgia, Montenegro, and many Caribbean nations.

Lastly, most every country in the world has some sort of business owners or startup visa. If you're entrepeneurially minded and have sufficient startup capital, you can get a visa pretty much anywhere in the world.

EDIT: I use travelingmailbox.com for snail mail and OpenPhone to maintain US-based communication for whatever reason.

Great summary and a wonderful starting point!

No, but it's made my decision to stay in my home city more viable long term. I live in the UK Midlands, which is cheaper to live in but has less opportunities than London. I have had good jobs here, but less choice than I'd have liked. I started a job search and while I've ended up working for a local branch of an international company again, in my search I found many more remote positions. I think it'll mean that in future I'll be able to leverage my experience for a job at more like ~London salary. Right now, I'm probably at 80% of London salary for my job, which is fine as my cost of living is very low and I live in a very nice area of the kind that would be difficult to achieve as an owner and not a renter in the South.

I moved to a cheaper place, (change city and state) got a home with garage and a pool. The mortgage is less than my previous rent and more than twice space wise. I found a place very quiet but very close to a big city and airport (10 min).

There are pros/cons because life is always full of trade offs, but was the right decision for me and my family.

Before COVID I used to commute 30 min each way morning/afternoon. I was close to a city 30 min. The airport was like 1 hr. Living in small apartment no to much space for living just sleeping.

I recommend to evaluate your current situation and chose what is best for you and family. Also make a list of pros/cons of possible places to relocate/move if you thing is moving out is a good option.

The other way around. I work remotely so that I can live wherever I like.

I made the jump to remote work nearly 20 years ago, specifically so that I could have the freedom to live anywhere. First stop was the beach, in places like Thailand and central America where the climbing and surfing is good and living is cheap. Eventually to Fontainebleau, where they keep all the best bouldering.

That's the biggest perk of this gig: that you can do it remotely. Find the place you'd most like to live on the world, then find a bed and internet there. Sorted.

It's baffling, watching the entire world get handed this dream that took so much time and effort to arrange back then, and seeing people complain that they miss their commute.

I'm going to be moving to a greener part of city in the next months. Previously I selected the current flat based on (walking) distance from the office. But where I am now there isn't a place to pleasantly run surrounded by nature, which sucks. I'd change the city too, but for now all my friends are here, which would make it tough.

Longer term, I'm planning on moving to another country (from Eastern Europe to most likely one of: Scotland, Netherlands or Finland) and, from what I gather, my company will allow me to work from abroad. Even longer term, I'm planning on simply starting my own company, so place is not going to be a constraint.

Where in Eastern Europe? Taxes there and cost of living are generally much lower than Western. At least, I quite like it.

I've thought about it but I end up discarding the idea because even if I move, if I want to get another job I'd have to move back to increase my chances to get another job, due to the way the job market works here.

SF to Orlando here. The tax benefit was huge, CA taxes were around %9. That alone covered a mortgage in Orlando - which has no state income tax. While working remote in Orlando I fixed up our house every weekend by watching youtube videos. Eventually I sold this house for a massive profit within 2 years and upgraded to a much larger home. Looking back paying SF rent prices I could kick myself for not leaving quicker. I looked through all the spending in SF - and realized rent control is the only way to make any money in SF. You need to lock in a cheap rent and sit.

No. I've spent time in lower cost of living areas and at the end of the day I love Seattle. The only direction I would consider moving is to an even larger city (NYC, London, Prague, etc. - SF, not so much). There's simply too much to do here. I don't want acres of lawn to mow, I don't want to spend my evenings in the same bar drinking the same beer, and I love being able to walk to things rather than relying on my car 100% of the time.

Yes. My son was born at the beginning of the pandemic and raising him in Toronto was hell on earth. I bought a house to be closer to my family and have more space for my son to grow up in.

Given the housing crisis in Canada it was not possible for me to buy in Toronto. Seems I was ahead of the curve because the insane housing prices seem to have expanded out from the city to pretty much everywhere but I was lucky enough to manage to get something for a reasonable price.

Moved FROM a big city TO a small suburb in a smaller 'big' city.

PROS:

- Can rent a house > renting a studio - More time outside - More outdoor activities like biking, hiking, etc - Get to have a car

CONS: - Limited food options (esp for vegans) - Less city walking (which was hardly ever less than 10k steps) leading to being very sedentary some days - Have to maintain a car and have no access to public transportation - Less diverse friend groups

OVERALL - Worth it for now

Yes, moved from SF North Bay / wine country to Buffalo NY to be closer to extended family, lower cost of living. I miss wine country, but it's been a good move. My company is based in EST so it's easier. I worry a bit about next job but it'll be OK I suspect. I work in IT management and software development in the past. It's no easy choice, but since we had kids the family factor won out.

I moved from Buffalo, NY to just outside of Tampa, FL lol...

Being far from family hurts a bit; covid didn't help either.

I've been here for about 3 years now and can't imagine ever moving back. The snow / crappy weather, the slow progress on building up downtown / the waterfront, the super high taxes, no beaches, no sun, etc...

(edit - lived in Buffalo since I was born + 38 years)

It's December 29th. I'm in a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops. Saturday we'll be going to Clearwater Beach and setting off fireworks for NYE.

Completely different way / quality of living. Show birds don't know how to drive and beaches this time of year are packed with tourists but I'll take that any day over the dark and gloomy almost year round weather. We're right in the middle; 1.5 hours to Orlando, 3 hours to FT Lauderdale, 4 hours to Miami, 7 hours to Key West. Still have yet to explore 1/4 of this state.

I love it here.

I spent the past 2 months in the Tampa area. I was really pleasantly surprised. There are so many nice little communities in the area.

Yes, but to be closer to my parents, and to nature.

I didn’t like WFH at first to be honest. But I’ve grown used to it and appreciate the flexibility especially with kids.

In the process of moving from London to Zürich to be closer to mountains and forests of central Europe. (While keeping the same role, now remotely.)

I have considered it and can imagine myself moving for short bursts to different parts of the country. I have cats, so I can't go full nomad and don't want to uproot them too much, but I can totally imagine moving between a couple of locations 1-2 times a year if my partner and I felt like it. It just feels so freeing to have the option, even if I don't end up doing it.

Cats are what's keeping me from going full nomad as well. Going away for a week or two works with having someone coming over to feed them, but leaving them alone for longer than that would make me feel bad for them. I'm considering moving them to my parents and going full nomad for a year or two.

Move no, but it made me consider working in another country. I work for a Polish branch of an American company. Most of the work I do is in English, most meetings are in English, and soon most internal communications might be in English too. If I am to do all my work remotely and in English anyway, might as well find a remote job in Great Britain and make 5x the money.

Did it and have no regrets. Some of the concerns here are bizarre. Swapping work commute time with grocery commute? Do people think people across the country don’t have access to food? Our grocery store is a five minute drive away. It took us 15 minutes to get to the nearest one in SF. Now we have a house and land that would cost millions in SF for a fraction of that.

I left the Bay Area and purchased a home in the Research Triangle for 1/3 of what I would have pain in SF, and I got way more for the money. Apple and Google are opening offices here, and the area is relatively progressive. There are 3 cities in close proximity with many universities. I feel that this area is very up and coming.

Already live in the midwest but remote work has allowed me to apply and interview for much higher-paying jobs at FAANG companies

Exact same here. I joined a FAANG 6 months ago. Good luck with interviews!

Considered and rejected, which was great because it made us realize what is good and what [little] is bad about where we live once that was decoupled from work.

Once the kids are off to college, I can imagine we might move around some or split our time, but for now remote allowed us to be consciously happy about our choice of residence.

Yes, we moved from a location that was:

high tax, dry/cold, unsafe, expensive, crowded

to a location that is:

low tax, wet/mild, safe, normal price, not crowded

Mind sharing the name of this Shringla?

Woodinville, WA

I live toward the edges of the city and was planning on moving back near the city core. Of course I stayed put once starting to WfH. Also in the same situation of residing close to my parents as they'll be needing more frequent help around the house.

Still contemplating a mobile office/camper van though.

I've considered various permanent locations and the digital nomad thing also appeals to me.

Another interesting development along with the rise of remote work is the rollout of starlink and the plummetting cost of solar.

I think in a few years you'll be able to work from just about anywhere on planet earth.

I was already remote before the pandemic, but worried about getting too far from Boston out of concern for future opportunities. The increase in remote jobs has definitely changed my mind on this and we're now looking at houses in some smaller towns in Rhode Island.

No, I have been WFH since March of 2019 and it hasn't changed anything. My wife and I have even purchased a house in that time and we only looked at homes within about a 35 minute drive of my office in the event I get recalled to working in the office.

Consider? Yes. Pull trigger? No.

But we’re established here. Family and friends are close. Jobs we like. Own our home.

We might buy a second home in the mountains and split time. But we were considering that before Covid and holding off now because inventory is low and prices went insane.

I agree with this sentiment. I think a dream would be to get a condo in a desert town for a couple months to escape the winter.

I moved from Sydney, Australia to France (same company, different team) - has been hard adjusting to a new culture and new team at the same time, but now I've got access to interviewing with companies on this side of the world, which is nice.

I moved to a cheaper, more remote area. But as a single person, I feel more isolated here and I'm now considering moving again. I don't want to start paying silly money to live close to work again, though (nor do I want to commute).

No, there are plenty of other reasons to stay in a city other than work. Culture, nightlife, friends for example.

If you live in a city and all you do there is go to work, you’re kinda missing the point imho because you could do that much cheaper elsewhere.

In my experience from managing remote teams if you’re not the type who likes moving, remote work won’t change much in your lifestyle besides that you’re seeing other humans less.

No, but it made one that was going to happen anyways easier.

I was able to keep my existing job and continue remotely, while my wife was able to take a relocation opportunity in another city.

Waiting for Starlink

Yes. I moved because it's good and hybrid. I would probably move back (or anywhere else) if it was fully remote.

Definitely. I had locked myself into semi-urban living in one of only several tech hubs.

I'm now considering all the possibilities.

It also makes working while traveling a much more open thing to do. I'm considering getting an RV for extended traveling.

Basically remote work opens up massive lifestyle changes for me.

I moved out from a large city to the countryside. I wouldn't be able to do it if I had not been working remotely (since 2006.) The last customers willing to see me in person maybe once per month or per week went fully remote so I was free to go wherever I like.

I regret not moving immediately. Our home is not suitable for this occupation (hehe)

Yes. I work remotely since 2016. I changed the country (Russia -> Philippines), but then had to return because the SMS codes that my bank uses for 2FA suddenly stopped arriving.

I'd love too. Ideally I'd leave the UK entirely if I could. I need to finish my probation and see from there...

Originally joined a company with an office in the capital, but due to the pandemic they committed to remote first from now on. I’ve now moved to a city on the coast with 70k people (capital had almost 2 million), and it is a 30 min train ride to the capital. Cost of living is roughly only 10% cheaper but the pace and apparent quality of life is much improved.

I left my job due to remote working but stayed in the same place.

I would love to move. My wife doesn't.

This is the truth and most disappointing part. I can now live anywhere but wife likes big cities, and best school districts are usually cities.

Same here, I personally can move anywhere in the world. But restriction come from wife.

In my experience, the best school districts are the affluent suburbs just outside the big cities.

No.